Why TV Tropes and Idioms Cannot Be Trusted

TV Tropes - SJWiki

TV Tropes and Idioms is a website that as it’s name would suggest, dissects tropes and storytelling devices. Initially it began as just a Buffy fansite, but soon expanded to analysing other tv shows, before moving onto analysing tropes from all forms of media.

The site much like wikipedia is supposed to be an impartial, non biased source of information.

It has a different section from it’s main articles called your mileage may vary, or YMMV for short where people can voice their opinions about things that not everyone might accept.

The site can be very informative and fun, and I don’t mean to badmouth everyone who contributes to it here. Still unfortunately my recent run in with the site demonstrates not only that it cannot be trusted, but also the degree to which people will try and rewrite the past to fit their own agenda.

I set up an account on TV Tropes a few months ago. It was just to correct some bad misinformation the site was spreading about the British Science Fiction series Doctor Who.

I felt the site was not only ridiculously biased against the Classic era, but also guilty of spreading some outright lies, primarily about the Doctors nemesis the Master.

For those of you unfamiliar, The Master was the Doctor’s archenemy, introduced in the Jon Pertwee era of the show.

In the classic era, the Master was depicted as having once been the Doctors friend, before they drifted apart.

The villain’s primary motivation was to conquer the galaxy because he believed under his rule he could make it a better place. (Not out of altruism, more his own gigantic ego.)

This is not just my opinion, this is an objective fact!

You can tell this just by watching the stories.

Here are some quotes from all the Classic era Masters stories.

Roger Delgado

MASTER: There, Miss Grant. I think we’ve seen the last of the Doctor. Buried for all time under the ruins of Atlantis. You know, I’m going to miss him.
JO: He’s not finished. I just know it.
MASTER: Of course he is.
JO: No, you’re the one who’s finished! Do you think that, that creature out there will ever let you control it?
MASTER: I do so already. He came when I called. You saw that yourself.
JO: Like a tiger comes when he hears a lamb bleating.
MASTER: Nicely put, my dear. You know, that was worthy of the late lamented Doctor himself. You know, I could kick myself for not having polished him off long ago. Just think of the future. Dominion over all time and all space. Absolute power forever. And no Doctor to ruin things for me.

MASTER: Now please, as I was telling you, the whole world can be ours. I only need two things. Your submission and your obedience to my will.
WINSTANLEY: What’s all this about obedience and submission? You said that we were going to rule.
MASTER: You rule? Ha! Why, you’re all less than dust beneath my feet!
WINSTANLEY: Preposterous!
MASTER: You choose to question me, do you? Very well, I’ll give you another choice. Obey me or I shall destroy you!
WINSTANLEY: If that’s your brave new world, you can keep it! I’m getting out of here and if the rest of you have got any sense, you’ll come with me.
THORPE: I reckon the Squire’s right. Come on, let’s get out of here.
(Up on the stair landing, the Master concentrates, and Bok jumps in through the window. The Master gestures and Bok makes Winstanley disappear.)
MASTER: Right, does anybody else agree with the Squire? Thank you. It does my heart good to know I have such a willing band of followers. Now, today is May Day. Go and enjoy yourselves. Celebrate the festival with your families. When I need you all, I shall summon you again.

AZAL: Speak!
MASTER: I am the Master. I called you here.
AZAL: That I know. Tell me why you now call me.
MASTER: Give me your knowledge and your power.
AZAL: Why?
MASTER: So that I may rule these primitives on Earth here, and help them to fulfill your plan.
AZAL: You are not one of their kind.
MASTER: No, I’m superior to them. That’s why I should be their leader.
AZAL: There is another here of your race.
MASTER: He has been destroyed.
AZAL: No, he lives. I would speak with him.
MASTER: I think not!
AZAL: Take care, creature! With your few pitiful grains of knowledge, you have summoned me here, but I am not your slave and you are not immortal.
MASTER: Forgive me, Mighty One, forgive me. Nevertheless, I claim that which is rightfully mine.
AZAL: Your mind is superior to mankind’s, and your will is stronger.
MASTER: Then I am to be your choice?
AZAL: I shall consider. Now leave.

AZAL: I answered your call because the time was come for my awakening. The time has come for the completion of the experiment or its destruction.
MASTER: Then fulfill your mission by granting the ultimate power to me. Who else is there strong enough to give these humans the leadership they need?
DOCTOR: I seem to remember somebody else speaking like that. What was the bounder’s name? Hitler. Yes, that’s right, Adolf Hitler. Or was it Genghis Khan?

DOCTOR: You’re going to use this weapon?
MASTER: Not unless it’s absolutely necessary. Well, don’t you see, Doctor? The very threat of its use could hold the galaxy to ransom.
DOCTOR: I think you’ve left it a trifle late.
MASTER: Doctor, you underrate me.

DOCTOR: So, you intend to hold the universe to ransom.
MASTER: Doctor, why don’t you come in with me? We’re both Time Lords, we’re both renegades. We could be masters of the galaxy! Think of it, Doctor, absolute power! Power for good. Why, you could reign benevolently, you could end wars, suffering, disease. We could save the universe.
DOCTOR: No, absolute power is evil.
MASTER: Consider carefully, Doctor. I’m offering you a half-share in the universe.

The Burned Master

MASTER: Rassilon’s discovery, all mine. I shall have supreme power over the universe. Master of all matter! Bwhahahaha!

Ainley Master

MASTER: You’re getting old, Doctor. Your will is weak. It’s time you regenerated.
DOCTOR: You won’t win, not ultimately.
MASTER: You’re mistaken. With Kamelion’s unique ability at my command, it’s only a matter of time before I undermine the key civilisations of the universe. Chaos will reign, and I shall be its emperor.
DOCTOR: Earth is a primitive planet. You won’t succeed so easily elsewhere.
MASTER: Where I cannot win by stealth, I shall destroy. That way I cannot fail to win.
DOCTOR: You’ll never succeed.
MASTER: Unfortunately, you will not be alive to find out. Which reminds me. My compressor.
DOCTOR: Safely in my Tardis.

MASTER: A turbulent time, Doctor, in Earth’s history.
DOCTOR: Not one of its most tranquil, I agree.
MASTER: A critical period.
DOCTOR: You could say that.
MASTER: Oh, I do. The beginning of a new era.
PERI: Doctor, do you get his drift?
DOCTOR: I’m afraid I do, Peri.
PERI: He wants to pervert history.
DOCTOR: Not that the Prince of Darkness here would see it as perversion.
MASTER: Maudlin claptrap. The talents of these geniuses should be harnessed to a superior vision. With their help, I could turn this insignificant planet into a power base unique in the universe.

The Master also has a pathological hatred of the Doctor too. It is true they were once friends, but their friendship in the Classic era was never that important to either of them.

Their former friendship is mentioned in a grand total of one episode, The Sea Devils. Here the Doctor does express some regret at the Master ending up the way he has, but it is never mentioned again.

The Master meanwhile in his first few stories is willing to form an alliance with the Doctor if need be. The Master does at that point genuinely think that when he rules the Galaxy, it will be a better place and so in his mind, the Doctor, a genius can help him build his better world.

Still he is willing to kill the Doctor from the start, and as time goes on the Master becomes obsessed with not only destroying the Doctor, but proving his superiority to him.

As the Master is a rampant egotist (who thinks he has the right to decide the future of the universe.) It would make sense that he would hate the Doctor, the man who challenges him more than anyone else.

Here again are quotes showing the Master’s intense hatred for the Doctor from Classic Who

DOCTOR: How do you know about them?
MASTER: Oh, from the Time Lord’s files.
DOCTOR: More stolen information?
MASTER: Naturally.
DOCTOR: Well, why do you want to contact them?
MASTER: Those reptiles, Doctor, were once the rulers of this Earth. And with my help, they can be so again. DOCTOR: I still don’t see why you want to help them. What can you possibly gain?
MASTER: The pleasure of seeing the human race exterminated, Doctor. The human race of which you are so fond. Believe me, that’ll be a reward in itself.

 

DOCTOR: But there’s no need for a war. Why can’t you share the planet?
SEA DEVIL: That would be impossible.
DOCTOR: The depths of the sea and those areas on Earth where man cannot live can be yours.
SEA DEVIL: And man would agree to that?
DOCTOR: There’s a chance. Wouldn’t it be better to try for a peace, than to launch yourself into a war that you cannot possibly win?
SEA DEVIL: I will consider what you have said.
DOCTOR: Let me return to the humans, and I will endeavour to make a peace for you.
SEA DEVIL: Perhaps it would be possible.
MASTER: No! The Doctor is your deadly enemy! He must be destroyed!

MASTER: You realise, of course, that you’re a doomed man, Doctor?
DOCTOR: Oh, I’m a dead man. I knew that as soon as I came through that door, so you’d better watch out. You see, I’ve nothing to lose, have I?
MASTER: Enough! Azal, destroy him!
AZAL: Who is this?!
MASTER: My enemy and yours, Azal. Destroy him!
AZAL: This is the one we spoke of. He too is not of this planet.
MASTER: He is a meddler and a fool.
AZAL: He is not a fool, yet he has done a foolish thing coming here. Why did you come?

Burned Master

The Master: Well?
Goth: The trial was adjourned, master. He pleaded Article Seventeen.
The Master: He remains as ingenious as ever.
Goth: He will not escape.
Master: Escape? Escape is not in his mind. Now he is hunting you.
Goth: It was a mistake to bring him here. We could have used anyone.
Master: No, we could not have used anyone. You do not understand hatred as I understand it. Only hate keeps me alive. Why else should I endure this pain? I must see the Doctor die in shame and dishonour. Yes, and I must destroy the Time Lords. Nothing else matters. Nothing!

MASTER: I have suffered long enough from your stupid, stubborn interference in my designs. Now we are coming to the end of our conflict, Doctor.
(Spandrell moves forward and the Master shoots him.)
DOCTOR: Why have you brought me here?
MASTER: As a scapegoat for the killing of the President. Who else but you, Doctor? So despicably good, so insufferably compassionate. I wanted you to die in ignominious shame and disgrace.

Ainley Master

MASTER: But this is the end, Doctor. You see it. It’s a power. A power from that planet. It’s growing within me. Are you frightened yet?
DOCTOR: No.
MASTER: You should be. You should be. It nearly beat me. Such a simple, brutal power. Just the power of tooth and claw. It nearly destroyed me, a Time Lord. But I won. I control that force, Doctor. And now, at last, I have the power to destroy you.

The Doctor for his part never showed a desire to redeem the Master, and certainly not to reconnect with him.

Apart from the Sea Devils, where he mentions regret at how the Master turns out, he never views him as anything but evil and makes several attempts on his life.

DOCTOR: You just don’t understand, do you, Jo? Once he gets that circuit back he’s free to roam through time and space. We’d never catch him.
JO: Then you’ll just have to give in. The Master’s got the missile and all we’ve got is this wretched machine.
DOCTOR: Jo, will you stop stating the obvious. What did you say?
JO: I said all we’ve got is this machine.
DOCTOR: Well, that’s it. That’s the answer. We’ve got the machine and we’ve got our friend, Barnham.
JO: I don’t understand.
DOCTOR: With a little help from you, old chap, we can destroy this machine and the Master at the same time.

DOCTOR: Well, how do you think I feel?
JO: Sorry.
DOCTOR: Yes. Here, have some coffee.
BRIGADIER: Well, at least we’re rid of the Keller machine, and the Master.
DOCTOR: Yes, we’ve probably killed off that machine all right, but I’m not so sure about the Master.
BRIGADIER: Well, even if he wasn’t killed, Doctor, he won’t get far if you’ve still got his circuit.

 

[The Master’s Tardis]

MASTER: Ah, Doctor. I was afraid you’d be worried about me, so I thought I’d let you know that I’m alive and well.

[Prison Governor’s office]

DOCTOR: I’m extremely sorry to hear that.

ENGIN: It’s we who should thank you, Doctor, for destroying the Master.
DOCTOR: Well, I didn’t actually see him fall, you know. I was quite busy.
ENGIN: Oh, but if by some miracle he survived the fall into that chasm, he was dying anyway.
DOCTOR: There was a good deal of power coming out of that monolith, and the Sash would have helped him to convert it.
SPANDRELL: Are you suggesting he survived?
DOCTOR: No, no, I hope not, Spandrell. And there’s no one in all the galaxies I’d say that about.The quintessence of evil. Goodbye, Spandrell.

It is true that Barry Letts and Terrance Dicks who created the Master intended for their to be a strong bond between the Master and the Doctor, but they intended to reveal that they were brothers. In what would have been Pertwee’s final story, we would not only have found out that the Master was the Doctors brother, but the Master would have redeemed himself to save the Doctors life.

Roger Delgado who played the first Master came up with the idea that the Master was the Doctors brother very early into his performance, and told it to the producers who liked it.

Jon Pertwee says as such on an extra included on the Planet of Spider’s DVD, whilst Barry Letts the co-creator of the Master backs this up on both the Planet of the Spiders extras and an extra on the Frontier in Space DVD.

Sadly the brothers idea was never realised as Roger Delgado was tragically killed in a car accident before his final story could be filmed. As a result there was never anything on screen to suggest a deeper bond between the Master and the Doctor.

John Nathan Turner who produced the show from 1980-1989 and was responsible for reintroducing the Master and casting Ainley, nevertheless always considered the Master and the Doctor to be brothers. Barry Letts had overseen John Nathan Turner’s first season as producer, and helped him reintroduce the character, so he filled JNT in on the characters backstory.

You can see Peter Davison who played the 5th Doctor admit that JNT believed them to be brothers and came close to revealing it on the Planet of Fire DVD.

Now in the 21st century Doctor Who series, the character of the Master was tampered with greatly by the producers, Russell T Davies and Steven Moffat.

They both favoured the ridiculous idea that the Master was so obsessed with the Doctor because he was in love with him. The Simm Master during the Davies era is at least attracted to the Doctor, whilst the female Master during the Moffat era passionately kisses the Doctor, and tells him frequently that her hearts belong to him. She also murders or tries to murder any attractive female friend of the doctor in jealous rages, and her entire plans revolve around winning him back.

Missy also abandons all of the Masters other time honoured traits, like his hypnotic powers, his main weapon the Tissue Compression Eliminator, his manipulative nature, and most jarring of all, his desire for power. (In her first story she gives up an indestructable Cyber army to win the Doctor back.)

The New Series Masters are basically totally different characters from the original Classic era Master. Sadly however TV Tropes and Idioms outright lied about the Classic era Masters history to try and make the two modern Masters (Missy most of all) fit in with the classic era versions.

The reason for this is because the Missy incarnation of the Master was more of a political statement than anything else. She was the first female Master, (and indeed the first on screen female version of a male Time Lord.) As a result there were people desperate to prove that a male/female Time Lord can be a success, to pave the way for a female Doctor. Not only would they praise her no matter what, but they would go as far as to say that she is similar to Roger Delgado’s Master, the original, to prove how seamless the transformation was.

Of course even trying to compare Missy’s version to Delgado’s is utterly laughable.

Delgado’s Master

MASTER: Well, Miss Grant, as an Earth poet once said, ‘My strength is as the strength of ten because my heart is pure’. Come on, you fellows, let me out! Your Emperor is waiting to see me.

Missy

MISSY: Well, yes, of course it is. I mean, how would you ever find your glasses? Or the little girl’s room? And what if you kissed an ugly? 

Yeah they are really comparable.

On top of that the Moffat era commands a certain loyalty from fans to the point where they will defend him no matter what. (Even when the Capaldi era’s viewers were down at 2 million, he was still being praised as bringing Doctor Who to new heights of popularity.)

With this in mind then it’s no surprise that these types of fans wrote on Television Tropes and Idioms factual article about the Master, that the producers had always intended the Roger Delgado Master to be in love with the Doctor, and that there was underlying sexual tension between the Delgado Master and the Pertwee Doctor (I’ll give you a minute to laugh at that.)

They also wrote that the Delgado Masters only motivation was to spend as much time with the Doctor as he could, that he was a vicious psychopath who killed people for no reason, and that the Missy incarnation was more faithful to the original Master than any other.

All of these points were presented in the main article about the Master, not in the YMMV section. They were clearly included to try and make Missy fit in better with the Delgado Master.

Naturally as a fan of the original I wanted to edit this article to be more factual. I wrote in the the truth that the producers and creators of the character intended to make the Master and the Doctor brothers. I also wrote in the Delgado Master’s true motivations, (his desire to take over the universe, rather than to spend time with the Doctor.) I also wrote in how Missy eliminated all of the time honoured traits of the Masters character, such as his hypnosis, his intense hatred of the Doctor and his lust for power.

Again these are demonstrable facts, not just my opinion.

Here is a quote from the Ainley Master in Classic Who.

MASTER: The universe is hanging on a thread. A single recursive pulse down that cable and the CVE would close forever. Even a humble assistant could do it.
DOCTOR: You’re mad!
(The Master produces his weapon, then switches on the tape recorder to broadcast his message to the universe.)
MASTER [OC]: Peoples of the universe, please attend carefully. The message that follows is vital to the future of you all. The choice for you all is simple. A continued existence under my guidance, or total annihilation. At the time of speaking, the
DOCTOR: Blackmail.
MASTER: No, Doctor, I’m merely reporting the state of affairs. I have it in my power now to save them or destroy them.
DOCTOR: You’re utterly mad.

Now let’s look at Missy’s view of gaining power.

MISSY: Tiny bit pleased? Oh, go on, crack a smile. I want to see if your eyebrows drop off.
DOCTOR: All of this. All of it, just to give me an army?
MISSY: Well, I don’t need one, do I? Armies are for people who think they’re right. And nobody thinks they’re righter than you. Give a good man firepower, and he’ll never run out of people to kill.
DOCTOR: I don’t want an army!
MISSY: Well, that’s the trouble! Yes, you do! You’ve always wanted one! All those people suffering in the Dalek camps? Now you can save them. All those bad guys winning all the wars? Go and get the good guys back.

That’s a clear deviation from the character. If Missy were a man, nobody would disagree with my analysis that she is an in name only version, but again because she is a woman and written by Moffat then she get’s a free pass from certain fans.

My edits to the Master article were instantly taken out by a moderator with no explanation. So I put them back in again, only for them to be taken out. I put them back in again, stating clearly that my opinions were backed up by facts, and so the moderator banned me for supposedly being rude and starting an edit war.

I took up my issue on the forum only to be told that nobody cares about my opinions, (whilst also ironically being told that my behaviour was rude. Incidentally another edit I made to another article, pandering to the base simply describing the legit criticisms of the Jodie era for it’s politics were deleted, with the reason being given that I was a misogynist. Apparently that wasn’t rude.)

I brought up the fact that what I wrote about the Master and the Doctor originally having meant to be brothers wasn’t simply my opinion. I told the moderators that they can find interviews with the likes of Jon Pertwee, the creators of the character, and others like John Nathan Turner all conforming this on DVD’s of Classic stories such as Planet of the Spiders and Planet of Fire and Frontier in Space.

I was then told that it didn’t matter what the creators and writers of the classic era Master stories think. Apparently because there was a consensus among people on TV Tropes that there was always a romantic relationship between the Doctor and the Master, that’s how it had to be written.

I brought up that it’s absurd to ignore what the creators, people who played the role, and writers of the character for 20 years all said in favour of some fans thought, who came decades after the likes Delgado and Ainley and JNT had died. After that I was banned from the site forever. I can’t even read personal messages to my profile on the site now.

Here is the argument in full.

TV Tropes and Idioms Banned Users Discussion

With this in mind you can see how Television Tropes and Idioms cannot be trusted. They are actually willing to ignore what the people who made the character of the Master said, because it doesn’t fit in with their interpretations. Every page should be a YMMV page with this in mind. There should be no distinction.

This also shows you how dangerous Missy fans and SJW fans are to the brand. It’s not enough for them to take it over in the present. These “fans” have to take over and rewrite the entire history of the Doctor Who franchise.

Television Tropes and Idioms is a site that millions of people around the world read every year. It’s terrible if it spreads such blatant disinformation that can be easily disproved as facts. It starts with something fairly irrelevent like Doctor Who, a tv series, but if it is allowed to spread to other more important records and areas of information then it could be extremely dangerous.

Ironically I am reminded of a line from a Doctor Who story featuring the Master. “The truth is inconvenient, we’ll just have to adjust it.”

This behaviour needs called out now before it spreads to other factual sites. I can already imagine if I wanted to include it on wikipedia that Missy was an objective change from the Master’s character as they were originally intended to be brothers, it similarly being edited out and me being banned.

The actual history of the Master in the Classic era is being either erased, or changed beyond recognition because it doesn’t fit with the modern, politically motivated versions of the character.

Until TV Tropes and Idioms get’s their act together and makes it clear that they are not quite so biased, then they simply cannot be trusted. If they are willing to blatanly lie about this, what else are they lying about?

Roger Delgado: The Original Master and the Best - Doctor Who Talk

There’s that big woman that wants to shag the Doctor. Remember it doesn’t matter what Roger Delgado himself thought about the Master, only what a fan born decades after his death thinks for their own political agenda. At least according to TV Tropes.

 

 

 

 

4 thoughts on “Why TV Tropes and Idioms Cannot Be Trusted

    • They have a real weird obsession with the Doctor and the Master being gay lovers. It’s quite pathetic really, but sad that they’ve been able to turn a once great villain into a laughing stock.

      Like

      • It’s part of a deliberate play to neuter any male characters.

        The methods are to either state that they were “gay all along”(which shows the homophobia of these people, as they see being homosexual as being ‘less than’)

        or to make male characters female. With the Master and the Doctor, they managed to do both. It’s one thing to come up with absurdities like Missy and the 13th Doctor. It’s something completely different, however, to claim that the Doctor and the Master in the Classic Series ever had any sort of romantic tension whatsoever.

        Then again, maybe it’s all little kids who can’t comprehend how old-fashioned, non-woke, competitive MEN behave when they’re around each other.

        Like

  1. Wow . Unaware of the SJW garbage.
    I always just thought it was just a stupid website, not knowing if this.

    One thing I found jarring was they have a trope “Not so different after all”, in which two characters meet and find out how similar they are. Laughably, they apply this to Spock and Data, when the two meet up in TNG. Part of the point of that episode was to show their differences. Spock, the half-human, trying to SUPPRESS his emotions, versus Data the android who wants some emotion, any emotion.

    The Master, meanwhile, is a mess. One of the biggest unintentional laughs actually comes rrom the BBC Website. On their Terror of the Autons page, there’s a section called “Untelevised adventure”, where the Master was apparently manipulating events on a large scale using hypnotism, and the Doctor thwarted his plans. And the Master is returning in Autons to seek revenge for this. The exact quote is even funnier. Nope, NO renegade Time Lord ever used mass hypnotism as part of a plan for global conquest, only to have the Doctor destroy his plans. Right before the Doctor’s Exile to Earth. On television.

    But once you can rewrite THAT, you can start down the road towards “Oh, they always wanted to have sex with each other!”

    This again actually started in the Virgin Books Era, where the writers had explicit sex scenes with companions. And certain characters were ‘revealed’ to have been gay or bisexual all along. It’s actually remarkable how much of the Nu Who SJW stuff, as well as the revisionist nonsense, begins with the Virgin Books.

    The Master obviously never had any romantic feelings towards the Doctor, or vice versa. That stuff exists only in the heads of a certain sort of person.

    Like

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